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  MSNBC    Hardball With Chris Matthews    News/Business.   
   (2013) New. (CC)  

    January 2, 2013
    2:00 - 3:00pm PST  

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of state have verified every aspect of her condition. so where does that leave the conservative critics? have they offered an apology for smearing an honorable public servant? have they accepted they were wrong to malign her? of course not. which just goes to show that victor hugo whose novel was first published in 1862 had more regard for women than the fools who've attacked the secretary of state some 150 years later. thanks so much for watching us this afternoon. we'll be here every day at 4:00 p.m. so do come back. but don't move. "hardball" picks things up right now. fiscal cliff hangover. let's play "hardball." ♪
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goovrng. i'm michael smerconish in for chris matthews. leading off tonight, did anyone really win in the fiscal cliff standoff? on one hand it marks the end of the reagan revolution. after all republicans voted to raise taxes for the first time in decades. on the other hand, the deal could be seen as a big victory for george w. bush whose signature tax cuts are now permanent for the vast majority of americans. the winners and losers at the top of the show tonight. and what about progressives? some are upset with the deal they say president obama gave too much away. that he should have used his re-election victory to hammer opponents. we'll get a critique from left. also the one guy you don't want to be is john boehner. he's under fire from both democrats and republicans for not helping victims of sandy. plus secretary of state
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hillary clinton is expected to make a full recovery after suffering a blood clot near her brain. so much for her critics on the far right who suggested she was faking being sick to avoid testifying about benghazi. and let me finish with the reason it's hard to avoid a fiscal cliff. we begin with whether anyone really won in the fiscal cliff standoff. howard fineman is the director for the "huffington post" media group, steven walsh with the wall street journal. let's look at who came out the winner on this fight. on the right there's some significant disagreement. here's what bill kristol wrote just before the house vote. quote, politically republicans are escaping with a better outcome than they might have expected. and president obama has gotten relatively little at his moment of greatest strength. then there's conservative commentator charles krauthammer.
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>> in the house who hate the bill and for good reason. i mean, this is a complete surrender on everything. >> so that's charles krautham r krauthammer. who won this thing? >> i agree with the basic premise it was a push all the way around. first of all, let me say that as far as the average working person is concerned, this really wasn't a victory at all. the payroll taxes go back up. and this wasn't really a job-creating bill of any kind. so that should be said. what we're really talking about here is politics. who won politically inside the beltway. and i think you have to say that the president came out marginally ahead. first of all, chaos could have been worse. even though he tried to blame congress, he's our president. and that's where the buck stops politically. if he couldn't have gotten a bipartisan deal and this was in the end, again the questions
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would have arisen. you came here saying you could reach bipartisanship and break gridlock and change the tone of washington. you just got re-elected by 51% and you couldn't do it. in terms of that political disaster, the president won. the stock market went up 300 points today. i give it to him on points. >> steven, are we all losers where a self-imposed land mine is relieved only by a decision to increase taxes on the upper 2%? in other words, all of that systemic change, all of those simpson bowles-like notions have at least temporarily fallen by the wayside. >> i agree with that. for the economy this was a disaster. raising capital gains taxes and dividend taxes makes no sense. in fact, the president gave a press conference last night where he said what we need now in the future is more investment. and we just had this giant increase -- tax increase on investment.
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but i think the democrats who were kind of thumping their chests now and saying we won have to realize that tax increases are done. this is it. there aren't going to be any more tax increases from this -- certainly from this house of representatives. and that means that you got a real question of where the revenues are going to come from to fund all of the government spending that president obama wants to do, because the truth is it's still -- it's still true that most of the income in this country is in the hands of the great middle class. >> the way you just voiced that makes -- lends credence to the fact that this is a tax increase to some. grover norquist gave his blessing to the deal and justified it by saying republicans didn't technically raise taxes since the bush tax cuts expired on january 1st. he was on with our andrea mitchell today. look at what he had to say. >> no republican voted for tax increase. what happened was obama had the
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dam cleez over the people with the tax increase over the next decade that would happen automatically. the republicans are quite clear. they want the tax cuts extended for everyone. the president insisted on taking them away from some people. that'll hurt the economy. he got his tax increase, but he can't claim republican fingerprints on his tax increase. >> well, wait a second. i mean, we're not living in the alice in wonderland world here. there is a tax increase for wealthier americans. it's literally a tax increase. >> well, first of all -- >> rates are up. >> what happened yesterday was all the tax rates went up and then the republicans and congress together took them down for some people, not for everybody. >> steven, does that pass the smell test? if i were to run against a republican who voted for whatever it is they just voted on and i said in 2014 my opponent voted for a tax increase, would i not be literally correct? >> you know, there are a lot of conservatives that are grousing today. a lot of them saying republicans should have held out and tried
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to get a better deal. try to get even fewer americans effected by the tax increase. it is a tax increase, but the question i would pose to you two is what else could the republicans do? i mean, if we went over the cliff, the stock market probably would have gone down another 300 or 400 points, republicans would have been blamed for that. they were playing a lousy hand to begin with. i guess my view is this may have been close to the best outcome that republicans could have gotten given the fact the president won the election and all the taxes were going up. >> howard, let me talk to you about the dissension on the right. look at what eric eriksson wrote about the republican leadership in washington. quote, the establishment in d.c. should be burned to the ground and salt on the remains. republican establishment in washington are going to need to look elsewhere for the savior of their party. boehner and mcconnell have
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declared they will survive. their party? they don't really care. what's going to come of the gop? >> i which he would be more forthright and candid in his views. he might be able to get a position on the wall street journal editorial page. i think there are two types of people who call them nominally republicans. there is the mcconnell/boehner type. they're a little older, little more establishment. they're more used to occasionally making deals. they actually like to legislate. they think legislating is somehow a good idea. most of the tea party people, most of the people that eric was speaking for there, they're not here to legislate. they're here to remonstrate. they're here to make a point. they're here as outsiders who intend to stay outsiders and put as many sticks in the spokes of government as they can. that is consistent with their philosophy. that's what they want to do. that's the sentiment eric is
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expressing there. there is a real conflict. the interesting thing to see is whether -- and i think it's correct. that somehow despite all the abuse even though he tries to screw things up, john boehner will probably be re-elected speaker. which in a way for the tea party people is good. they want to keep railing against the insiders. if they put one of their own in as speaker, then that person will have to make deals and they don't want it to be. >> you can't have it both ways. >> which side would you want to be going forward? the president surrendered his leverage i take you mean coming out of the campaign and the opposition here faced by the gop, the prospect better stated was that everybody's taxes could go up. okay. so the president has played his hand. who do you think now has the leverage going forward? >> look, i really do think republicans -- i don't know if they have the leverage, but they're on higher ground now than they were three days ago. because they will be able to say with great credibility over the
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next year and obviously this budget debate is just starting, not ending. that the president got his pound of flesh out of rich people. he goes his tax increase on the rich. now we got to talk about the spending side of the equation. i think obviously the next big fight will be over the debt ceiling. i don't know if republicans will play that card or not. but the president will be hard pressed to argue for more taxes when he just had two tax increases. he had the obama care tax increase which starts today and the tax increase on the fiscal cliff deal. so i think the democrats are not in as strong a position as they think they are. >> politico this morning had a dramatic account of an exchange last week in the white house between john boehner and harry reid. this happened before the deal had been reached, i should point out. according to politico, boehner had strong words for the senate majority leader quote, go f yourself boehner. as he pointed his finger at
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reid. reid a bit startled replied what are you talking about and boehner then repeated it. go f yourself. they didn't cut the deal. in the end it was vice president biden and the senate majority leader. what does this say about the inability to work together? >> i also like the fact according to that story that boehner then went around bragging to everybody he said that to reid. i think they were both at the bottom of the food chain here of decision makers. they were fighting at the bottom of the chain while mitch mcconnell and joe biden were putting together the deal. i think both boehner and reid in a way were powerless in this decision for obvious reasons. and they -- the white house -- i was told by david plouffe o month ago that he much rather would prefer to work with mcconnell than boehner. mcconnell knows how to play chess, boehner doesn't.
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>> he got his wish. >> and when i talked to the republican senators they said the same thing about harry reid. that's why biden was brought in. i don't know if this story is true. i don't know if john boehner said what's been reported by politico. but if it is true, there's no question about is the animosity between these two sides. it's greater than i've seen in the years i've been here. these two guys really hate each other. >> thank you very much. >> thanks. >> thank you. coming up, why some of the left are unhappy with the fiscal cliff deal. we're going to talk to one of the democrats who voted against the deal. this is "hardball" the place for politics. a hybrid? most are just no fun to drive. now, here's one that will make you feel alive. meet the five-passenger ford c-max hybrid. c-max says ha. c-max says wheeee. which is what you get, don't you see? cause c-max has lots more horsepower than prius v, a hybrid that c-max also bests in mpg.
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part, the deal approved today is truly a missed opportunity to do something big to reduce our long-term fiscal problems. but it's a small step forward in our efforts to reduce the federal deficit. washington missed this magic moment to do something big to reduce the deficit, reform our tax code, and fix our entitlement programs. we'll be right back. ♪ aww man. [ male announcer ] returns are easy with free pickup from the u.s. postal service. we'll even drop off boxes if you need them. visit usps.com
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welcome back to "hardball." columnist charles krauthammer called this week's bipartisan plan by the democrats. but it's not just conservatives displeased with this deal. on monday night the progressive group go on trashed the deal. and richard trumka tweeted we can't destabilizing hostage taking from rs in the form of
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another debt ceiling crisis. and worried about their future bargaining leverage when it comes to time to debate the debt limit and sequester again. >> this proposal represents the absolute least we could have done under these circumstances and tragically institutionizes for the next congress the short-term frenzy around self-inflected deadlines. >> we will look back on this night and regret it. >> one of the democrats who voted no is virginia congressman jim moran who's with me now. thank you for being here. charles krauthammer said on the right this was a route for the ds. you disagree. >> normally when the far right and far left are in agreement, the middle makes the most sense. but not in this case. i think this is a very bad long-term deal for democratic priorities and thus for the president. because what we did was to take
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$3.9 trillion off the table permanently and set up three more fiscal cliffs over the next three months. the sequester, the debt ceiling, then the expiration of the appropriations bills. which will happen in march. and what it does is to say we will never bring in more than 15% of gdp. but we have never had a robust economy when federal spending wasn't about 20% of gdp. because you need that investment in research and innovation and education and skills training and so on. and what's going to happen is that interest on the debt is going to be greater than any of the programs that provide that kind of seed corn investment in our children's future. so that's what we did last night. we conquertized revenue as an
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extraordinarily low rate. a rate you'd have to go back to before medicare and social security, before the baby boom generation came into adulthood. and before the rest of the world started growing competitive to the u.s. economy. >> congressman, last night president obama warned republicans not to try to turn raising the debt ceiling into a fight for cutting spending. take a look at what he had to say. >> while i will negotiate over many things, i will not have another debate with this congress over whether or not they should pay the bills that they have already racked up through the laws that they passed. let me repeat. we can't not pay bills that we've already incurred. >> what leverage does the white house have left if they've already now played the card on the precipice of the fiscal cliff with the election result at their back. why now going forward would they have the leverage to entertain
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some type of a grand bargain or to not have to negotiate over the fiscal -- the debt ceiling limitation. >> the answer is none, michael. when i heard the president said that, i thought good luck with that. >> right. >> the one thing that this republican-dominated congress has proven over the last four years that it can do is nothing. but we had two points of leverage. they had to deal with the sequester and they had to deal with things like the estate tax and upper -- and taxes on the wealthiest. so we gave away those two face cards, if you will. i don't think we got anything in return that's going to matter over the long-term because we set ourselves up for situation where the only questions being asked is what programs are we going to cut and how deeply. i don't think that the majority in the house leadership really
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cares that much about the full faith -- i shouldn't say the leadership, but in the majority of house republicans care about jeopardizing the full faith and credit of the government. some of them are almost giddy when we went into the crisis last year. and certainly they have no intention of postponing this sequester. which is going to cause real damage to federal programs and the federal workforce. so i think the democrats are in for a real tough time without much leverage in these negotiations. that's my concern. >> understood. >> i want them to have a legacy that he could be proud of and that is going to enable us to provide a better life for our children and grandchildren than we inherited from our parents. and i doubt that can be done with the diminished resources that we voted for last night. >> congressman jim moran, thank you for your time, sir. we appreciate it. >> sure. david corn of mother jones
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is a msnbc political analyst. happy new year. good to see you. could john boehner and president obama, could they cut a deal between the two of them? i ask that question because there's a perception out there that i happen to share that those two men in the room could cut a deal. whether they could keep their constituencies in line for that deal is another question. >> if you look at the last year and a half and go back to the first debt ceiling fight, that the president is far more able to get the vote he needs for a compromise from his side than john boehner is. john boehner going back a year and a half couldn't get his own people to support a budget plan going forward. and this time they didn't support plan "b." couldn't even bring it up for a vote. and last night he didn't even bother speaking in favor of the bill which he did support. while the rest of his leadership was against it. so i think john boehner is sort of speaker in name only.
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call him a spino instead of rhino. and he can't speak for his caucus so he can't cut a deal. which is why the white house -- biden did this with speaking for the president ended up cutting a deal with mitch mcconnell. >> what i'm suggesting is it's not necessarily speaker boehner's shortcoming. i don't know anyone could debate on behalf of the republicans in the house and deliver the votes. >> i'm not saying -- well, speaker boehner is obviously not superman. and he's been very weak. but the way he has viewed his role as a leader here has been really the tout of the tea party folks. and he's not been able to find a way to persuade him to follow them. it may be that that's an impossible task. >> you heard a moment ago congressman moran who voted against this last night and i sense frustration in his voice
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which i share. because this band-aid that was applied doesn't seem to provide any of the systemic change that's necessary to put us on a long-term path. can you give a more optimistic take? >> well, i compare this to the 2010 tax deal in which -- where president barack obama got a second stimulus in return for giving the tax break on the wealthy. the big win here is he did get a lot of republicans to support his basic conception that taxes have to go up on the rich in order for things to be fair and in order to generate more revenue so we can deal with the deficit and continue investments and things we need to invest in education, innovation, and the like. he didn't get enough revenue with this deal. he gave on that, you know, $250,000 limit. went up to $450,000.
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>> i guess it's going to be harder to get more revenue with spending cuts in the nx go around. i'm out of time. new year, new laws. while the rest of us were celebrating 2013, some whacky new laws have gone in effect around the country. stick around for the sideshow. and if you want to follow me on twitter, just figure out how to spell smerconish. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if we took the already great sentra apart and completely reimagined it with best-in-class combined mpg,
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or wild hog as they're known back into the wild. and to kansas, the whole concept of a crazy cat lady just became obsolete. no more than four cats per household are allowed in the state of kansas. north carolina is cracking down on slippery fingers. literally. stealing unused cooking oil is now classified as a misdemeanor. finally driverless vehicles got the green light to hit the road in california. but don't get too excited. self-driving cars are still in the testing phase and someone must be in the passenger seat. next from high school to the house. house republicans were by no means united in favor of the fiscal cliff deal. speaker boehner wanted it past but eric cantor was against it. it turns out the tension goes a lot farther back for two other members of the caucus. it starts with darrell issa who voted against the fiscal cliff. >> i'm with eric cantor. i can't vote for it in its current form. the senate and the president and
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vice president failed to meet their obligation. their own stated obligation which was to bring us a balanced bill. one that had tax adjustment, yes. but also had spending cuts. this one fails at that and fails badly. >> so enter ohio republican steve latourette who wasn't jazzed but took the plunge and voted yes. >> i went to the same high school as congressman issa but we haven't agreed on much since. >> did you agree in high school? >> i didn't see him a lot in class, so i don't know. >> somehow i doubt they'll show up together at the reunion. one point of agreement, both congressmen suggested that new year's eve was partially to blame for what the senate put together. >> i think it's a little unreasonable for senator reid to say something they produced on new year's eve by a bunch of doctrine jinarians is what we should vote on. >> all that partying own revelry
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and drinking that goes on on new year's eve at 2:00 in the morning. >> are you suggesting mitch mcconnell and the others in the senate were a little bit drurng when they voted on this last night? >> of course not. i was having a lit bit of fun with you. it was after midnight. it was a piece of legislation that was intended to be passable, not necessarily to be right. also, the fiscal cliff taking cues from les mis, the classic book that became a broadway smash which became a hit movie. this may be the first viral meme. politics meets broadway. i had a dream my life would be so different from this hell i'm living. or john boehner's crying at all is not allowed. not on my castle on a cloud. and when the bill passed in the house, it's eric cantor with what a life i might have known. and the final vote tally. up next, why has it taken so
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long for house speaker john boehner to hold a vote on an aid package to help the victims of hurricane sandy? that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ man ] ring ring... progresso
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i'm mandy drury with your market wrap. the dow soared more than 300 points. the nasdaq climbed by 93. the jump start came from washington where last night's eleventh hour fiscal cliff deal in the house gave investors renewed confidence. apple jumped nearly 3% amid talks they're testing a new iphone and new ios software. that's it from cnbc. now back over to "hardball." .
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there's only one group to blame for the continued suffering of these incident victims. the house majority and their speaker john boehner. we respond to innocent victims of natural disasters not as republicans or democrats, but as americans. or at least we did. until last night. last night the house of representatives failed that most basic test of public service. and they did so with callous indifference to the suffering of the people of my state. >> welcome back to "hardball." when a politician even one as outspoken as chris christie the republican governor of new jersey trashes his own party like that, it's knews. in fact, the failure of the vote on a package for hurricane san si is one of the areas where republicans and democrats can agree. here's what it sounded like on
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the floor this morning. >> we cannot believe that this cruel knife in the back was delivered to our region. >> an emergency and disaster means emergency and disaster. >> i think it's inexcusable that we did not have this vote. >> it's the most disgraceful action i've seen in this house in the 20 years i've been here. >> we've been devastated. and i would hope that the speaker would bring this to the floor as quickly as possible. >> late this afternoon we learned that speaker boehner appears to be giving some ground. the house will vote on friday on a $9 billion package, a supplemental for flood insurance. followed by a follow-up vote on january 15. john runnion is a republican of new jersey. he joins us now. good to see you congressman. what did speaker boehner say today? >> well, he really touched on what you said. starting it off friday with the relief on the flood insurance
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aspect of it. and really capping it off and taking the vote i think b we all think we should have been taking this afternoon, taking that on january 15th. you know, i -- and i think what speaker boehner really said when he first sat down, he goes i know there's been a lot of frustration, a lot of anger that's been directed at me. and he goes, i own it. i deserve it. he goes -- he could kind of explain it where he didn't feel it was the right situation or he didn't like the vote count he had for the fiscal bill. which i would disagree with because like i think you just had the quote there, this is disaster. this is disaster relief. we're already 66 days into this process. you know, people are suffering. and it's about getting them the relief they need. and it's frustrating to be able to sit here and be two years and at the end of the congress come tomorrow still making these same mistakes dragging them on
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instead of making the decision to move on. >> and it's also self-inflicted. at least from the outside looking in, you look at this and say of course they're going approve a superstorm sandy package of relief. why wouldn't they? and to have this delay go off the clock is a further wounding of the party. >> it is. and like you just said, michael, it's self-inflicted. i think everybody bipartisanwise would say this is going to happen. why are we delaying it? let's get it done. you've heard the rhetoric back and forth of the senate bill coming over here. and i think the -- what we have in place here in the house, we're actually going to clean that up. make it disaster related. take all the pork, take those senate earmarks out of there. make it a clean bill and do what it's intended to do. help the people. my constituents. the residents of new jersey, new york. that's what the job is and putting this off is only going
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to hurt us in the long run. michael, i know you know the delaware region well. the jersey shore is a billion dollar industry. if that's not close to up and running when it comes spring and summertime, that's going to take a hit. >> let me ask a question about your governor. soon chris christie will stand for re-election. and here he is so straightforwardly commenting and criticizing speaker boehner. and it comes on the heels of him appearing with president obama. i guess my question is within the party does the republican apparatus get tired of its governor stepping out of line from the typical partisan mode? >> i think what governor christie brings to the table is what the american people look for. someone who shoots straight. if you hold people accountable, that's what needs to be done. accountability at the end of the day is what everyone's frustrated about. that's why i ran. that's why i got involved.
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it's here every day trying to kick somebody in the seat of the pants just to do their job and take care of their constituents. >> got it. thank you very much. >> thank you. joining me now democratic congressman from new york joe crowley. congressman crowley, is any of this rooted in a bias against the northeast? i ask you that because the associated press reports that new york congressman peter king sees a regional bias in the sandy aid bill postponement. he said quote, some republicans have a double standard when it comes to providing aid to new york and new jersey compared with other regions of the country suffers disasters. somehow he said summon going to new york and new jersey is seen as corrupt. do you see it the same way? >> you know, i can only speak for my own perspective and district of the people i represent. the people in queens and brox and new york city. people who work hard every day. get up and go to work and put their kids in school. and do that repeatedly. they love this country. they don't think of themselves
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as new yorkers. they think of themselves as americans. and when something like this happens in california or if it happens in texas, in florida, in the carolinas, or in kansas when the tornado hits, i don't ask are they really americans or are they kansasians? i hope that's right. or are they californians? or are they texans. i don't ask that question. i just say what can we do to help? >> yeah. peter king noted, congressman, that $60 billion was appropriated within ten days for katrina. i think that's part of the predicate of him making that statement. >> not to make light of it, i think it's actually $64 billion in ten days was allocated towards katrina. i supported that effort as well. >> sure. >> i believe that when it comes to a disaster, people constantly ask what role does government have in my life. you know, you realize what the role of government is during a natural disaster like sandy. i don't live in the rockaways, i don't represent that area but
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it's where my family is from. i've seen the devastation multiple times. and these are people who don't ask for anything. they pull themselves up by their own boot straps and they get going again. but they're suffering right now. and every day that we delay -- and look, i understand what mr. boehner was going through yesterday. he had a tough vote in his conference. that wasn't fun. neither is not having power in your house. >> i understand. may i ask you this. this is being attributed to a scheduling snafu. are you aware of any organized opposition to relief for the victims of superstorm sandy? >> absolutely not. i haven't heard of any organized effort. i heard some of my colleagues on the republican side say they'd like to give a lot less than the $60.4 billion. but we thought we had the votes that would pass the amendment to make it a $60.4 billion bill. >> thank you. appreciate your time. >> thank you. up next, hillary clinton's expected to make a full recovery
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after doctors discovered a blood clot near her brain. the same might not be true of her harshest critics who accused her of faking illness to avoid testifying about benghazi. that's ahead. this is "hardball," the place for politics. i called the car myself. i'll give you a lift, sir. who are you again? daniels, sir. accounts. who's this? this is daniels. key player over in accounts. ♪ daniels. director of accounts. [ male announcer ] the all-new nissan sentra. [ daniels ] good luck in there! c'mon, daniels. you're vp of accounts aren't you? [ male announcer ] it makes a powerful first impression. it's our most innovative sentra ever. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ innovation that excites. it's part of what you slove about her.essing. but your erectile dysfunction - you know, that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved
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between her brain and skull. while she spent time out of the public eye recuperating from effects of a fall last month, she endured criticism from conservative critics who suggested before sunday that she was faking illness to avoid questions about the deaths of four americans in benghazi. here's a taste of what they've had to say. >> i'm not a doctor, but it seems as though that the secretary of state has come down with a case of benghazi flu. >> apparently she's suffered from acute benghazi allergy which causes lightheadedness when she hears the word benghazi. >> when you don't want to go to a meeting or conference or event, you have a diplomatic illness. and this is a diplomatic illness to beat the band. i mean, i certainly hope it's nothing serious, but this was revealed in a way that i think was not transparent. >> this is a duck and cover, let's be honest. and the clintons are great at this. >> how could she get a concussion when she's been ducking everything?
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>> joan walsh from salon and lauren ash lin is a reporter at daily beast. what is this twisted thought that they're spreading? >> well, they think she's faking an accusation is what they're spreading -- faking an illness. it's what you would hurl at a third grader. i don't understand making fun of someone who is sick. it's not human behavior that is christian or right at all. >> once the seriousness of secretary clinton's condition was revealed this week, john bolton was asked again whether he believes she's been away for health reasons. take a look at what he had to say. >> do you believe now the explanation that she's being treated for a blood clot in a new york city hospital? or do you continue to believe that there is some sort of an effort here to prevent her from having to testify fully and what she knows about benghazi. >> i didn't think that was the effort to begin with.
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i think that they're trying to walk a fine line that does not affective potential presidential candidacy that we expect. >> what do you suspect? >> i'd like to help lauren out here because i think it's obvious. it's not mysterious at all, what they're doing. this is kind of a continuation of clinton derangement syndrome. let's say it's berthaism. these wing nuts, these wing nuts, have been assailing our popular democratic presidents going back to bill clinton and now you have to win that trifecta. so now you have the current popular president, barack obama and the current future president, hillary clinton. >> is it driven by those concerns that you just saw in that b role about the 2016 prospects or just a deep seeded
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hatred of hillary, regardless of her future? >> i think it's both. they hate her now, they're going to hate her then. they are afraid of her. they don't want to have to run against a hillary who has been a very popular secretary of state, a very popular senator, who has run as first lady and no matter what your politics are, she has done a good job for the country. and i think, while she didn't run as well as she could have in 2008, she would be a formidable opponent. >> no doubt. and even before secretary clinton suffered these injuries, republicans were already worried about her potential 2016 prospects. here was newt gingrich on "meet the press" in early december. >> if their competitor in '16 is going to be hillary clinton supported by bill clinton and presumably a relatively still popular president barack obama, trying to win that will truly be the super bowl. and the republican party today, was incapable of competing at that level.
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>> and certainly, the republican party hasn't helped himself since newt gingrich said what he said. joan walsh? >> no, she's a very, very formidable candidate, you and i both know that. so there's an element here where, let's say, the craziness has really been on the far right. john bolton is not a mainstream figure in anyway. although i guess president bush tried to make him one. i would like to see kathleen parker had a great piece in the washington post this morning calling people out for their craziness. i'd like to see more mainstream republicans the same. the more this is talked about, the more it can me tatasticize. >> i think it's a problem not just with conservatives, but i criticize people that said about bush 41 that he should die a miserable death when he was in
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the i.c.u. >> i'm sorry, lauren. these people are going on fox news and saying that did you have any liberals going on msnbc saying we hope -- i mean, it's just, like, unthinkable. i can't even repeat something like that. that's the kind of false, false equivalence that so many mainstream reporters fall into which is why we are in the mess we're in today. >> lauren, you can have the final word, go ahead. >> the final word is that we are in a culture right now, especially a political one driven by the media where both sides are very nasty. in this piece in particular, i read in "the daily beast" that people have to state the hating to hillary, especially when she's sick. >> thank you, everyone, we appreciate you being here. when we return, the big reason it's becoming difficult for congress to cut a deal. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. losec otc.
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let me finish tonight with this question. why was it so ditfficult to avod the fiscal cliff. that's a question i'm sure voter who is have been clambering for compromise would like answered. nate silver had a partial response in a recent 538 block post. silver noted where in 1992, there were 103 members of the house that were elected from
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what might be regarded as swing districts. today, silver calculates that number at just 35. it means 400 of 435 races are virtually predetermined by party affiliations. there's no incentive to compromise. i think that's a true explanation as far as it goes. jerry has become a massive problem. add in closed primaries where the most reliable voters are ideologs.